Comments on: Ambition and ethics

by: Carola Belton

Tue, 20 Oct 2009 05:43:35 +0000

Judith,
First of all, thank you so much for taking the time to come to your class to share your experiences. In response to your question I would like to quote Professor Paul Strom, “Change is pain.” Women for the last century have come together to create a new face for themselves in a world that has been dominated by men. In the area of sports women are rising to the top and breaking down barriers between the traditional “civilized women” to the free and “empowered women.” Women have begun to realize their full potential and are no longer constrained by society’s traditional expectations. Take for instance, adventure racer Robyn Benincasa, who has finished in the top five of more expedition races than any other competitor. This challenge on the traditional system is why I think women have received just negative criticism when it comes to dangerous sport. As a parent both mother and father share EQUAL responsibility. If climbing is what you love weigh your risk. Don’t free climb a mountain. If surfing is what you love don’t go out and surf 50 foot swells. What I would like to know is if climbing is what you love to do and you are willing to take the risk, then is enlisting in the army (acknowledging the risk if not probable death) because serving your country is what you love to do any different?

by: Phillip

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:51:42 +0000

There is so much gray area involved when talking about ethics; it’s hard to always come up with a conclusive answer. I don’t believe in the double standard that the press is giving to female vs. male climbers- I think both play an equally important role in the family, and with that said, I think both need to realize that their families safety and well being is more important than climbing. One of the biggest questions that I have is for the athlete that does not have a family to look after. How ethical is it for them to devote all of their time and effort solely to that one sport, and not spend time with their friends and immediate family? I can understand that it is good to achieve these ambitious goals in sports in and I understand how good it feels to accomplish something. But I also wonder how much they are hurting their friends by not maintaining good relationships? Or is there a way to still be ethical by training hard and still keep good relationships?

by: Mandy

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:03:11 +0000

Good question! I think it is unethical to take risks that could leave young children as orphans i.e. with no parents. So where there are two parents, which partner gets to climb and when, is a decision the partners have to make together and I’m assuming that such trips are undertaken with full awareness of the realities of the dangers.

by: Tara Kun

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:57:42 +0000

People are still boxing women into the “housewife” stereotype, and it’s unfortunate. I don’t think that this will go away however, because unconsciously I think people will almost always associate women with children. It takes a lot more thought to instantly think of a man’s children when you are told that a man has died.
I don’t think that women should be less willing to climb challenging peaks even if they have children. If climbing is their passion, they should do what they love or else they will be constantly longing for it. If men can do it, women can too.

by: Becca Perry

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:09:23 +0000

I can appreciate Sean’s point. For the situation at hand I think it would probably be fair to say that Alison was not the traditional stay-at-home wife. The fact that she even attempted the peak shows her individuality and zest for a life of her own doing what she loved. If this is true, I don’t think that the media had a right to judge her actions as outrageous. It seems as though society may judge the loss of a mother as more significant than that of a father. I personally regard the losses equally.

by: sibylle

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:44:08 +0000

Judith,
I think your question centers on the concept of “risk”, which I didn’t discuss in class. Research has shown that people’s perception of what is risky does not in any way match actual degree of risk. People perceive flying as more risky than driving, whereas it’s much, much safer. I myself do not view rock climbing as risky - in fact, I think it’s safer than downhill skiing. Most skiers do not view skiing as risky.
The most dangerous thing any of us do, including climbers, divers, parachute jumpers, etc., is probably driving to and from that activity.
I’ll try to find statistics and write a post on risk.

by: Judith Streit

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:04:26 +0000

Without intending to derail the conversation, I would like to add a question for those of you who are risk-takers on the slopes, in the mountains, etc. Does risk-taking in the physical realm lead to willingness to take risks on the highway, on moral questions, etc. If so, can you illustrate with an example?

by: Sean Abramson

Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:57:53 +0000

I was in the class that you visited, so I thought I’d throw my two cents in. I don’t think that it’s inherently more unethical for a woman to climb dangerous mountains than a man. I do, however, believe that it is more unethical for the stay-at-home-parent (assuming one works and one raises young children) to take risks when he or she has young children, and that role is traditionally filled by the mother more often. The kids bond with this parent more than the one that works, and depend on him or her for much of their affection, as well as for their day-to-day activites. I’m not a parent, so I’m hardly an expert, but that seems logical to me

by: Jenny Zeidler

Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:18:35 +0000

I am also not a climber but after hearing the thrill-seeking stories in class I want to try climbing and anything else outside I can experience and enjoy. There are many sports and activities today that are very competitive and involve intense and careful training as well as take up a large amount of time. I think it is important if you have a certain desire for achievement in something to follow through with it. I agree that the media may attack woman climbers with children over men just simply because the bond mothers have yet that is not to say men do not have that same bond it is just a large stereotype. Although many of these mothers are risking their lives with children at home, they are also teaching the little ones to find something they absolutely love and enjoy doing in life and doing that with their whole heart involved. I think women with children AS WELL AS MEN should be extra careful and try to make the safest climb as possible but not to completely give up something they love doing. I think it is ridiculous for climbers to not use ropes or any safety measures; that is simply taunting death but when a mother or father is attempting to stay as safe as they can while “striving for achievement” in something that they love doing they are making a difference in the world. There should be no judgement on women more than men in this field. Women are watched carefully in this sport solely because some do not think they can do it as accurately as men do but over the years the women climbers have proved them wrong! I do not think it is justifiable to attack women with children over men, motherhood is very important just as fatherhood is yet somehow women are more observed and criticized for it… so I don’t think so either!

by: Claire Walter

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:28:56 +0000

I’m not a climber, but I seem to remember that amid the shock of the Everest tragedy of 1996, there was a degree of outrage that Rob Hall could have left a very pregnant wife to guide a risky expedition. His final call to his wife by sat-phone was a poignant bit of Hall’s final climb. When Jamie Pierre made his epic 245-foot off a cliff off Fred’s Mountain at Grand Targhee and augered headfirst into the snow, he too was taken to task for doing so when he was the father of a 3-month old. His photographer dug him out and he skied away from the stunt, but the “what if he had been killed” criticism was out there. Certainly, a mother gets more attention than a father when the risk is great, but then, women’s accomplishments always have the spotlight shone on them. “The first woman to do such and such” always garners more attention that the second or the tenth or the hundedth man to do the same thing.